Author Topic: My Library Dream  (Read 736 times)

apmnut

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My Library Dream
« on: January 02, 2019, 01:43:38 AM »
Hey, group. Local Jack Shaindlin/Mozart Edition/all things American or German library fanatic apmnut here, and the reason I'm making this topic is to share with you my library dream. This is an idea that's been brewing in my head for quite some time now, and I thought that you nice people might be interested, and maybe even support my idea.

What I'd really like to do someday, when I get out of college (or maybe I can get this started when I'm already in college), I'd really like to form my own library. This would be a free or royalty-free library, like the dozens (maybe even hundreds) that are out there nowadays on the Internet, like AudioMicro and Incompetech, preferably 100%, totally free; targeting mostly Youtubers and independent filmmakers. Much of the tracks offered will be compositions done for my own in-house cue library devised for the cartoons I'd also like to make when I get older, along with other tracks submitted by e-mail by other people, but there is one thing I'd really like to do that would separate my library from the other free libraries: a diverse, large archival catalogue spanning the 1940s-80s, all lovingly remastered from original tapes whenever possible. This might be impossible, but I'd like to use this library to get a lot of rare stuff out there, some potentially never heard by the general public in years. I'd really like to get everything in here: 50s neutrals, orchestral dramatic and sci-fi tracks straight out of old B-movies, groovy 60s, 70s funk, kitschy German lounge, and even 80s music.

Here are the catalogues I'm thinking about trying to acquire for this project:

American Image (Money Machine, Music Explo, Wizard) (maybe)
Century 21 Productions (likely)
every Shaindlin track not on APM (Langlois/Cinemusic)
Gene Kauer/Doug Lackey (maybe?)
Gordon Zahler/General Music (definite)
Hanna-Barbera Productions (not library, but a lot of great stuff that needs to be released)
Jay Ward Productions (also not library, but there's some great Fred Steiner and Dennis Farnon stuff from this company floating around)
Kristinaar Records (possibly)
Mozart Edition (definite)
Robert Hall (maybe, not sure, might be toooooo difficult)
Spectrum Mood Music (likely)
WinWalt Productions (likely)
Winston Sharples/Scroll Productions (possibly)
a German catalogue (but maybe not, since ME has a LOT of tracks from German composers)

Not to worry, I'm not thinking of retitling any of these tracks when they're added to the library, UNLESS they don't have actual names, just code numbers (there's a lot of H-B cues with codes instead of names) or if what we've listed as "titles" are but descriptions of the cues (Money Machine, Wizard, Music Explo, Century 21). If I can't find composer info, I'll probably just put the label as the composer.

Like I said, some of these catalogues might be extremely difficult or IMPOSSIBLE to find, because who knows where the reels and master tapes with these are now, plus I don't know who might have them. There are likely warehouses and private collections of this stuff somewhere which might never be accessed by the public. But I'll still do whatever it takes to find these tracks once I decide they'll be in the library, with the right-holder's permission, of course. But it'll all be worth it once they're found and I've gotten permission from the right-holder(s).

Well--- that's my music library dream. What do you think? Oh, and if you have leads for who might have these catalogues, or who the right-holders are, either comment below or PM me.

Porn Library

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Re: My Library Dream
« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2019, 04:09:10 AM »
This would be a very expensive dream, and some impossible. You'd be looking at hundreds of thousands of dollars in investing to just buy the rights for everything. Plus, the hundreds of thousands of reels to both bake, transfer and then the investment on top of that to have them all professionally cleaned up and mastered.

Also, long extinct libraries like Robert Hall have individual owners of all library cuts and cues. Everything was individually licensed even at the time, and a lot of those composers are either no longer with us, or will be by the time this dream company would get started based on the time frame you hinted at. It's a great dream, and shaving it down to a smaller scale (like maybe going after 1 of the smaller long extinct libraries for archival material with only a 5 to 10 thousand dollar up front investment), could very well be a possible and logical one.

Great dream though!
« Last Edit: January 02, 2019, 04:12:54 AM by Porn Library »

Greta

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Re: My Library Dream
« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2019, 12:58:04 PM »
What a dream, yeah.
I know nothing about rights and rights holders, and american labels are still an unknown territory for me.
So, the only thing I can say is just I wish you the best luck in succeeding with this fantastic project.
G.

The_Eleventh_Hour

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Re: My Library Dream
« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2019, 03:50:08 PM »
Why not attempt to create your own library, i mean by hiring composers to do work?

I am a PR to a lot of composers (Mainly film score composers) That i can direct your way - The fees may not be too painful as to your initial dream, but it could be a good foundation to start.

apmnut

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Re: My Library Dream
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2019, 01:38:30 AM »
This would be a very expensive dream, and some impossible. You'd be looking at hundreds of thousands of dollars in investing to just buy the rights for everything. Plus, the hundreds of thousands of reels to both bake, transfer and then the investment on top of that to have them all professionally cleaned up and mastered.

Also, long extinct libraries like Robert Hall have individual owners of all library cuts and cues. Everything was individually licensed even at the time, and a lot of those composers are either no longer with us, or will be by the time this dream company would get started based on the time frame you hinted at. It's a great dream, and shaving it down to a smaller scale (like maybe going after 1 of the smaller long extinct libraries for archival material with only a 5 to 10 thousand dollar up front investment), could very well be a possible and logical one.

Great dream though!

Yikes! Never thought about how much money it would take to make this come true, but you're probably right about narrow it down to a smaller scale and going after one or two of the "extinct" libraries. And about Robert Hall: not to worry, but I wasn't actually thinking about the stuff from Great/Hieronymus, Loose or any of the other composers credited on the later Hall LPs, particularly the stuff with no credit, like the Moog tracks, but it still might be too much, considering the output of Robert Hall, especially if there's more albums from them that haven't surfaced yet.


Why not attempt to create your own library, i mean by hiring composers to do work?

I am a PR to a lot of composers (Mainly film score composers) That i can direct your way - The fees may not be too painful as to your initial dream, but it could be a good foundation to start.

That's actually a pretty good idea. I might just do that, actually! Yeah, feel free to send them my way! I'm sure they'll be more than happy to write cues for the library.


Thanks for the support on my dream, people. It means a lot to me.

Also, how does this feel for a revised catalogue lineup?:
-Fred Rabold Musikproduction (again, maybe not since, like I said, ME has tons of tracks from German composers and that might be the kitschy German catalogue I need)
-Gordon Zahler
-Hanna-Barbera
-Mozart Edition
-Shaindlin
-Spectrum
-WinWalt Productions

Definitely not doing:
-Kauer/Lackey
-Robert Hall

Ones to think over:
-American Image
-Century 21 Productions
-Jay Ward
-Kristinaar
-Sharples/Scroll

Was considering the Bill Loose catalogue (OK/PMS/UMS, May-Loo, Timbrewood) as well, but I'm probably not going to get those.

Porn Library

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Re: My Library Dream
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2019, 05:13:16 AM »
check your private messages  ;)

apmnut

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Re: My Library Dream
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2019, 01:49:34 AM »
So, I've been trying to find out about the current right-holders for some of these labels, and been thinking about how I might be able to access some of these catalogues, and here's what I got:
-Mozart Edition: likely will be very easy, as the label is still active as a company.

-Gordon Zahler: a number of tracks from this catalogue are listed on ASCAP, even though there are undoubtedly more in the library (excluding tracks licensed from Josef Weinberger and Mozart Edition). Chip Taylor, Zahler's nephew, might know who might have the library. Maybe I'll call him sometime and find out the whereabouts of the reels from the catalogue.

-Shaindlin: EMI Blackwood Music is listed on BMI as the owner of the tracks re-released on Cinemusic, but there are other tracks released only on Langlois which aren't listed. Wonder if EMI also owns those as well. "Yowp", who you might know as posting on here from time to time, told me once in an e-mail about a guy who had the complete(?) Langlois library on tape, but unfortunately passed away. Sometime I'll ask Yowp if he knows the name of this fellow and who might know what happened to his collection.

-Hanna-Barbera: I believe Warner Bros. owns these cues.

-Jay Ward: I imagine Dreamworks now is the owner of these tracks.

-Sharples: ASCAP lists a woman in North Hollywood, name of Gillian Bonacci as representative for these cues, not sure if she might own the whole catalogue though: only a really small amount of individual track names are mentioned compared to the number of "cues" entries for various programs which used this library.

Rabold, Spectrum, Kristenaar, Century 21...no idea who might own the tracks from these labels now.

apmnut

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Re: My Library Dream
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2019, 01:33:26 AM »
Whittling it down to what I think will likely be my final archive lineup:
-Gordon Zahler
-Hanna-Barbera
-Mozart Edition
-Shaindlin
-WinWalt

Ones to continue thinking about:
-American Image
-Bill Loose/May-Loo/Timbrewood
-Century 21
-Kristinaar
-Rabold
-Sharples/Scroll
-Spectrum

Now, for a catalogue with a good amount of funk. Cinemusic has a bit of that, but I wonder if it'll be enough to satisfy most who will be browsing this site.

(Sorry if I seem like I'm trying to be an attention grabber.)

apmnut

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Re: My Library Dream
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2019, 11:05:49 PM »
Okay, here's the definite final lineup of archive catalogues which will be on the library:
-Gordon Zahler
-Jack Shaindlin
-Mozart Edition
-WinWalt

Four seems like a good number for this library, plus each of these catalogues has something to offer to contribute to a truly diverse vintage catalogue, ME with its great lounge music and orchestral melodies, the Gordon Zahler label with its authentic 30s-60s period recordings, WinWalt with 80s library cues with that distinctive authentic 80s sound, and the Jack Shaindlin catalogue with its large amount of retro 40s-50s orchestral and big band recordings, plus a smattering of tantalizing, rhythmic and always groovy 60s melodies that conjure images of go-go girls showing off wild dance moves with funny phrases tattooed all over their bodies, 70s easy listening and truly "dope" funk tunes with titles like "Was It Good for You Too?" and "X-Rated Love", and a good helping of specialty recordings. All in all, four truly great catalogues each with distinctive musical selections perfect for any production which demands that real, authentic "period sound".

The H-B TV soundtrack cues from Hoyt Curtin and Ted Nichols- I may need to think these over. They might be difficult as they're owned by a major corporation, i.e. Warner Bros., and who knows how I'll do trying to get their permission to distribute that catalogue. Still, there are plenty of great cues originally composed for this studio and I won't let the fact they're owned by a big corporation get in the way of fulfilling this dream.

Definitely not going after those other catalogues I've thought about, that IMO might seem like a smidgen too much.

Finally, I've been thinking about Darren/Eleventh's suggestion about having original cues done for this library, and I love that idea a lot, and I definitely want to do that. Probably want to start initially with all original cues and submissions, plus the WinWalt and maybe Gordon Zahler cues because I imagine they'll be easy to get since they're not like KPM, DeWolfe or any of the other legendary labels, and add the other archive catalogues, plus the cue library for my cartoons as time goes by (nothing to do with the song of the same name!).

Shmurgis

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Re: My Library Dream
« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2019, 05:58:37 AM »
It might be worth considering a tiered approach. like having archival releases, grab bags, tracks under a minute and more experimental collections free, and themed sets at a reasonable, affordable cost. The money then could be used towards buying rights to other musics.